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"What's the result of the Arab Spring? Chaos!" says Saadawi, banging her fist on the nearest surface. "The fragmentation of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon. Who is benefitting from that?" This fragmentation, says Saadawi, was all part of a plan: "The US-Israeli plan. Forged with the European Union." According to Saadawi, these are the three powers that work together deliberately to suspend the Middle East in an ongoing state of conflict. "All governments collaborate; the governments don't work for us—they work together against us. They divide and rule. They inherited it from the British. From the end of 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century, the British colonial power wanted to divide Egypt by religion—Christian versus Muslim. It's a tactic that today's American neo-colonialists inherited."If the US is the world's biggest superpower—one that has colonized the Arab world over the last 50 years through privatization, free markets, and the guise of "global development"—Saadawi maintains that we can't possibly take this out of the wider context. "We have to look at history to understand what is happening now—that's why I studied religion," she tells me. "It is how the patriarchal, feudalist class was able to emerge." Saadawi says she spent 15 years of her life learning about Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and Buddhism. "I wanted to know: what is this male god saying? I compared the Qur'an, the New Testament, the Torah, and the Gita—and what did I find? Slavery! Religion is slavery to women and the poor. It is the basis of capitalism and feudalism. And now all religion is based on money and the market." She slams her hand on the table again. "Ridiculous!"READ ON VICE NEWS: While the West Resumes Business As Usual With Sisi, Egypt Arrests Prominent Journalist
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We settle on "anti-capitalist" and revisit the time that Saadawi lived in America as a professor at Duke University in North Carolina. This was 1988 and she had wound up on a death list of radical figures who threatened Mubarak's regime. She claims she went to America in exile. "How did you fair in the world's most hyper-capitalist culture?" I wonder. "America is not the government. It's like the UK… you are not the government. I am not the government of Egypt. The American people are wonderful people and some universities are very progressive. In America you find everything: the ultra-Marxist and the feudal capitalist." She hesitates, then grins mischievously: "But, yes, some universities confiscated my contract because I was teaching creativity and dissidence."Saadawi returned to Egypt in 1996. "I cannot live anywhere except Egypt because I have to change things from inside, and also it is my home," she says. "In my country I have a role." She ran for presidency against Mubarak in 2004, mostly just to make a point—as a woman and as someone on the left-wing—but was forced to stand down after she received threats. On the subject of whether she is still in danger in Egypt, Saadawi says, of course. "All my life, I was either in exile or at prison or shut at home—I am always marginalized, even today. But now I am supported by the young people more than ever. Before the revolution, people used to read my books and come to me. Now even more do."Nawal smiles again, and this time I ask her if she is happy. "Of course I'm happy!" she says. "I'm happy because I'm doing what I want. When I don't like you, I tell you! When I want to quarrel with my publisher, I quarrel. That's why I'm happy: I have no secrets. I am happy because I express myself. I am a psychiatrist. Do you know why people become depressed? Because they cannot say what they believe."Saadawi's books are available to buy on Zed Books.Follow Amelia on Twitter.READ ON BROADLY: The Forgotten Feminist Architects Who Changed the Face of London